In the previous post, Possible Reasons, I made a statement about the angels having faith. Gordon Cloud who I greatly respect and admire disagreed with that statement. He gave 3 points to ponder. I read those points and responded quickly without any additional thoughts than what had been or already was on my mind. I went to work and gave the whole matter much more thought. I was hoping to come home and find that other people had voiced their views but alas, that didn't happen.
Soooooooo, Whatchya think?
Do angles have faith?
10 comments:
You are way ahead of me here.
One thing I did notice in scripture is that there are elect and non-elect angels. In otherwords the Lord is the one who puts them in either camp and would thus uphold the angels according to His will.
I don't have any idea about Gordon but I do believe that angels have faith. In the bible there is only one omniscient which is God. Basically angels are like us who have a capability to put our faith into practice.
If you mean "Faith" which we must have for salvation, then, no - angels do not have that kind of faith. On the other hand James spoke of the demons beliving and trembling, "Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble." James 2:19.
Do the angels of God believe in Him. Most certainly, but not in the same sense as we who believe unto salvation.
Yes. Faith is belief. Angels believe.
As for Elect Angels. It is not certain that this is not a special group within the angels of God, rather than indicating an election of angels to faithfulness in general.
Every Blessing in Christ
Matthew
I think Bro. Blankenship has made a good point. Angels have the capacity for belief. Notice however that these are fallen angels.
Even an unsaved person has the ability to believe in the existence of God. James is pointing out that it takes more than that to have genuine, saving faith.
In your reply to my comment on the previous post, you stated that Lucifer questioned whether Jesus was God. To which particular scripture are you referring?
Also the context of Hebrews 11 is not being able to see God, but still believing that He is. The "substance" and "evidence" mentioned in the first verse of this chapter are references to God, not angels. It requires no faith on the part of the angels to believe in the existence of God.
Just some more points to ponder.
Hmmmmmmm....
I have now seen where I may not be speaking clear.
It was never my intention to imply that angels have "saving faith". Angels are spirit beings (Hebrews 1:14) and they do not die (Luke 20:36). God could not give His greatest love to angels. God wasn't going to become spirit and lay down His life for angels that do not die.
I don't think angels even understand salvation fully. "About which salvation the prophets sought out and searched out, prophesying concerning the grace for you; searching for what, or what manner of time, the Spirit of Christ made clear within them, testifying beforehand of the sufferings of Christ, and the glories that should follow. To them it was revealed that not to themselves, but to us, they ministered the things which are now reported to you by those who have preached the gospel to you in the Holy Spirit sent from Heaven; which things the angels desire to look into" (1 Peter 1:10-12).
Angels contemplate the work of salvation from without, as spectators and not as participants. This make's perfect sense to me. Angels do not marry (Matthew 22:30). Since angels do not marry they cannot know the intimacy of becoming one flesh (Genesis 2:24). Those of man who place their faith in Jesus become His bride. Man has the potential to be one with the Lord. It's no wonder angels look into these things.
I do not believe angels can be saved or have the potential or capacity to have "saving faith" I do however think the angels demonstrated a form of faith at least once.
I have often wondered what the first thing Jesus said to an innumerable number of angels who just came to be, who He just created. I'm guessing it was "Fear Not!" followed closely by "I am the Lord thy God. Thou shalt have no other gods before me". No matter what was said I imagine that Jesus did indeed inform them that they were created by Him and before Him there was nothing except Him. Why do I say this? Well, It seems that Lucifer questioned this. One cannot question something one does not know about.
Why do I say Lucifer questioned if Jesus was God? Even if the angels have a complete and total understanding of the Triune God I think Lucifer questioned whatever manifestation of God the angels have the privlage to behold. Why?
Lucifer thought "I will be like the most High". Lucifer did not believe God created him. I'm fairly certian that the attacks and lies Satan uses today are further proof that he does not believe God is the Creator of the universe, thus, evolution, mormonism, ect.
Even if Lucifer was absolutly, positivly certian that he was created by God he still questioned God's ability to stop him from assending. I'm pretty sure most people think his intention was to overthrow God.
I think the temptation in the desert is a prime example of Satan questioning the Godhood of Jesus.
The temptation of Eve to be like God. The devil is looking for a loophole in the system.
It seems whenever the topic of Lucifer and the angels comes up he is portrayed as sneaking around building an army of rebel angels against God. I don't think this is how it was at all. I think when Jesus said He was the angels Creator and Lord, some doubted.
When Lucifer spoke out against the Lord, angels then let the seed of doubt in them blossom and they took sides. I imagine it wasn't unlike the Israelites and the golden calf. Jesus said, "Who is on the LORD's side? Let him come unto me" (Exodus 32:26). The rest were cast out of Heaven. They made a choice and suffered the consequences. All the angels made a choice that day. They looked at Jesus and said, "Yes, I believe He is my creator, my God, and besides Him there is no other" or they didn't believe.
On what basis were the angels to believe? Even if God explained fully how He was all by Himself before He created them they still would have to believe what God was telling them......based on what?
FAITH! The angels at least once had to demonstrate faith. Do you suppose that it was through faith that the angels understood that they were created by the Word of God? I think it possible. Not faith unto salvation but faith that "believe that he is". What's interesting about Hebrews 11:6 is the word used for "he is". Estee is taken directly from eimi which means, I exist.
There was at least one point without doubt that the angels made a choice. I think the choice was to believe that God was exactly who He said He was or not. I think that desision had to be based on a faith that said "God Is". A faith that said, "We understand that we were framed by the Word of God."
Not faith unto salvation. I'm thinking that is were the misunderstanding has been in my writing of angels having faith.
As I said, Michael. I can tell you have put a lot of thought into this. These are interesting thoughts, suppositions and imaginations.
Yep, It's like I have said. It's all just stuff I think about. The numberd post all run together, like one big thought. The main thought that forms everything is God is Love and He will not make anything in His creation return love. There has to be a choice.
Next up in the series is God's Justice. I'm pretty sure I'm moving into territories that will open up lot's of discussion. IT'S GREAT!
I would like to share some information on a recent spiritual research conducted on Angels. The research has been conducted by Spiritual Science Research Foundation, they have been conducting research into the spiritual realm for the past 20 years. Their recent study is on Angels for eg: do all angels have wings, how close are angels to God, do angels have the power to fulfil our worldly desire etc. Guys, the results are fascinating please take a look http://www.spiritualresearchfoundation.org/spiritualresearch/spiritualscience/angel/
I would like to share findings of a spiritual research conducted on Angels. The Spiritual Science Research Foundation has been conducting research into the spiritual realm for the past 20 years. Their recent research is about Angels for eg: do all angels have wings, how close angels are to God, do angels have the spiritual power to fulfil our wishes etc. The findings of the research are breath taking, please take a look http://www.spiritualresearchfoundation.org/spiritualresearch/spiritualscience/angel/
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