I found this line of text interesting...
In answer to those who say "the truth lies between Calvinism and Arminianism," Spurgeon replied: "It does not; there is nothing between them but a barren wilderness."
I guess that makes God's Word a barren wilderness cause that is were the truth lies.
Oh! But wait, the same article says I'm going to make somebody mad by saying that....
"To those Baptists who accept the Bible as the final authority instead of the philosophical speculations and theological implications of Calvinism or Arminianism the Calvinist reserves the most scorn. To call oneself a "Biblicist," instead of either a Calvinist or an Arminian, although it is particularly offensive to the adherents of both systems because it correctly implies that they are both unbiblical".
I'm sorry to offend if that statement is true.
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12 comments:
This is a good point of view, Michael. The truth often lies between two extremes.
I am a Calvinist, and a lover of that grand man’s memory and doctrine; but I believe nothing merely because Calvin taught it, but because I have found his teaching in the Word of God" (CH Spurgeon)
I think the only reason I posted this was cause I like the term Biblicist.
It just seemed like such a great word. Especially when I looked it up.
Biblicist (dictionary.com)
1. An expert on the Bible.
2. One who interprets the Bible literally.
1 Corinthians 2:12
".. but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual. But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned."
The bible is not literally discerned but spiritually discerned. As are the doctrines of Grace. Once they are revealed to you, you can see them on every page of the bible.
So the bible is not literlly the Word of God?
I choose to believe that Spirit spirtually discerns the Word to give me a literal meaning. I don't think God symbolicly comunicates with me. He says yes and no. Do and do not. Believe or perish. God is not a god of confusion.
I think the bible should always be interpeted literly except for where God clearly says it is something else and then as near as I can tell He always gives the meaning.
I think that a natural man ONLY gets the literal meaning, if that. This is why they see endless contridictions. It's why they can pick and choose verses without context. It's why they can find errors in God's Word.
When the Spirit comes the Word lives. The Word didn't change. The meaning is still the same. We changed when the Spirit came. Now we can recieve the literal Word of God instead of a dead book the natural man recieves.
Far be it from me to say I am an expert on the bible but I do happen to know that the One who lives in me is!
Hey Puritan!
Off topic,
I have listened to The Suprising Work of God a few time's through now. Once I find the text I'll have a couple comments for sure I'm sure we'll be discussing.
I forgot to thank you for standing with me on your topic of Not Under Law.
I used to use the verse you qoute joking around. I Love God More Than You! because, "The one who has sinned much is forgiven much and also loves much".
People would get all uptight about it though so I stopped doing that.
Oh! I knew you were a "card carrying Calvinist". I have taken the time to read your Dummies Guide to Calvinism and the link off of it.
I look forward to your response here to the above.
Hi Michael,
Yes the bible is literal hence the words. However in all things it is spiritually discerned. As are every single word you understand for example. How would you understand the word Faith if you had none? Or hope if you were hopeless. Or Born Again if you were dead?
Not only that why did Jesus speak in parables?
Answer: Mark 4:12 So that they would not be converted or forgiven.
"Far be it from me to say I am an expert on the bible but I do happen to know that the One who lives in me is! "
Very well put.
In relation to the sinned much loves much verse. It is true as it stands and means what it says. Hence we glorify in Jesus.
If you really wanted a good verse to bring against the calvinist here is one:
Matthew 23:37
"Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, the way a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were unwilling."
If you wanted to read into this scripture you could say that Jerusalem rejected grace?
Actually I didn't give much thought to bringing anything against a Calvanist but that is very interesting.
How about the parablle in Luke 14:17-20? Did they refuse? How about Luke 15:28? The father pleads!?
Proverbs 1:24-25, "Because I have called, and ye refused; I have stretched out my hand, and no man regarded; But ye have set at naught all my counsel, and would none of my reproof:"
Yes they did reject and refuse. The council of the Lord falls on their deaf ears. How willingly they all go about their own devices when the call is their night and day. "Many are called..."
Why then did the Prodigal Son come home? After all I am sure there were dead mans bones in that pig pen who never repented of their ways and came home?
If the Bible is not to literally discerned then God is an inefficient communicator.
Yes there are spiritual truths in the Bible which need to be undertood.
Yes there are those who the Lord has chosen not to reveal certain things to.
What then is the measure of a spiritual truth?
The scripture.
If a spiritual discernment is contrary to anything written in the Bible then it was another spirit disguised as an angel of light which has decieved you.
We need to be careful with making statements like "...because the spirit has revealed it to me." as being the sole evidence for any particular doctorine.
I guess if I had to chose between believing 'The Word' or 'a spiritual discernment' I'd prefer to be a biblicist every time.
Puritan,
Since you presented Matthew 23:37 as a really good verse to bring against a calvinist I have decided to play along and defend that verse.
First off Mr. Puritan we cannot "read into" scripture. This verse has nothing to do with grace. Maybe it could be used as an example of grace but the verse in context is not refering to grace or salvation.
The prophets did not preach grace. They did not offer salvation. The prophets spoke of the law and impending judgment if there wasn't a return to it.
A hen gathering her chicks is not offering her chicks grace but protection. Salvation is not found under her wings but safety.
Jesus looked at a Roman occupied Jerusalem and declared that they would not obey.
What they were unwilling to do in the translation you qoute is obey. What they would not do in the KJV is obey. In any words, in any translation the trust of this verse is that Jerusalem (the people) were disobiedent to the message sent by the prophets and suffered the consequences which was that God lifted His protection.
Further more grace was not an option at the point Jesus spoke this. Although Jesus had offered grace to individule people grace as a whole was not available yet. Jerusalem was under law.
If anything this verse further demonstrates our need for grace and might "if one reads into it" show that Jesus was initiating that grace by comming to Jerusalem.
Michael:
Very good answer Michael I think along those lines to. The Lord wanted to gather his children together, the way a hen gathers her chicks under her wings and at the same time Jesus also had the excellence of Grace to come. The law never bought the physical Israel to himself for they were always hardened and wondering away. However the spiritual Israel the Lord would lose not one. Remember not all israel is israel. And the spiritual man knows that a true Jew is one who is one inwardly and not physically.
P.S You still need to get rid of the crystal ball stuff. Foreknowledge is not explained by saying well God knows what we will do therefore he chooses us. The Lord knows what will happen in the future because he will make it happen that way. He knows what He will do. The Lord upholds all things by His Power. He is all and in all. Just run through your mind a few scenaries eg what happened if the Lord didn't harden pharoes heart. Did God count that Judas was the Son of Pedition in his foreknowledge. Not only that what happens if you are born in a Muslim family or your Mother is a harlot. The thing is life is not fair but besides this the Lord choses whom he will and has mercy on whom he wills. This is how the scripture: And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God to those who are called according to his purpose.
Notice the word he "causes" and also according to his purpose not ours. I never wanted to become a christian I loved Sin. But the lord because of His great love with which He loved me. Saved me.
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