Hmmmmmmm....
First off let me thank everyone for the awesome input into this topic. This same reply is in the comments. It was an after thought to post it.
I have now seen where I may not be speaking clear.
It was never my intention to imply that angels have "saving faith". Angels are spirit beings (Hebrews 1:14) and they do not die (Luke 20:36). God could not give His greatest love to angels. God wasn't going to become spirit and lay down His life for angels that do not die.
I don't think angels even understand salvation fully. "About which salvation the prophets sought out and searched out, prophesying concerning the grace for you; searching for what, or what manner of time, the Spirit of Christ made clear within them, testifying beforehand of the sufferings of Christ, and the glories that should follow. To them it was revealed that not to themselves, but to us, they ministered the things which are now reported to you by those who have preached the gospel to you in the Holy Spirit sent from Heaven; which things the angels desire to look into" (1 Peter 1:10-12).
Angels contemplate the work of salvation from without, as spectators and not as participants. This makes perfect sense to me. Angels do not marry (Matthew 22:30). Since angels do not marry they cannot know the intimacy of becoming one flesh (Genesis 2:24). Those of man who place their faith in Jesus become His bride. Man has the potential to be one with the Lord. It's no wonder angels look into these things.
I do not believe angels can be saved or have the potential or capacity to have "saving faith" I do however think the angels demonstrated a form of faith at least once.
I have often wondered what the first thing Jesus said to an innumerable number of angels who just came to be, who He just created. I'm guessing it was "Fear Not!" followed closely by "I am the Lord thy God. Thou shalt have no other gods before me". No matter what was said I imagine that Jesus did indeed inform them that they were created by Him and before Him there was nothing except Him. Why do I say this? Well, It seems that Lucifer questioned this. One cannot question something one does not know about.
Why do I say Lucifer questioned if Jesus was God? Even if the angels have a complete and total understanding of the Triune God I think Lucifer questioned whatever manifestation of God the angels have the privilege to behold. Why?
Lucifer thought "I will be like the most High". Lucifer did not believe God created him. I'm fairly certain that the attacks and lies Satan uses today are further proof that he does not believe God is the Creator of the universe, thus, evolution, mormonism, ect.
Even if Lucifer was absolutely, positively certain that he was created by God he still questioned God's ability to stop him from assenting. I'm pretty sure most people think his intention was to overthrow God.
I think the temptation in the desert is a prime example of Satan questioning the Godhood of Jesus.
The temptation of Eve to be like God. The devil is looking for a loophole in the system.
It seems whenever the topic of Lucifer and the angels comes up he is portrayed as sneaking around building an army of rebel angels against God. I don't think this is how it was at all. I think when Jesus said He was the angels Creator and Lord, some doubted.
When Lucifer spoke out against the Lord, angels then let the seed of doubt in them blossom and they took sides. I imagine it wasn't unlike the Israelites and the golden calf. Jesus said, "Who is on the LORD's side? Let him come unto me" (Exodus 32:26). The rest were cast out of Heaven. They made a choice and suffered the consequences. All the angels made a choice that day. They looked at Jesus and said, "Yes, I believe He is my creator, my God, and besides Him there is no other" or they didn't believe.
On what basis were the angels to believe? Even if God explained fully how He was all by Himself before He created them they still would have to believe what God was telling them......Based on what?
FAITH! The angels at least once had to demonstrate faith. Do you suppose that it was through faith that the angels understood that they were created by the Word of God? I think it possible. Not faith unto salvation but faith that "believe that he is". What's interesting about Hebrews 11:6 is the word used for "he is". Estee is taken directly from eimi which means, I exist.
There was at least one point without doubt that the angels made a choice. I think the choice was to believe that God was exactly who He said He was or not. I think that decision had to be based on a faith that said "God Is". A faith that said, "We understand that we were framed by the Word of God."
Not faith unto salvation. I'm thinking that is were the misunderstanding has been in my writing of angels having faith.
Tuesday, February 28, 2006
Monday, February 27, 2006
Do Angels Have Faith?
In the previous post, Possible Reasons, I made a statement about the angels having faith. Gordon Cloud who I greatly respect and admire disagreed with that statement. He gave 3 points to ponder. I read those points and responded quickly without any additional thoughts than what had been or already was on my mind. I went to work and gave the whole matter much more thought. I was hoping to come home and find that other people had voiced their views but alas, that didn't happen.
Soooooooo, Whatchya think?
Do angles have faith?
Soooooooo, Whatchya think?
Do angles have faith?
Saturday, February 25, 2006
(10) Possible Reasons
In the post on angels I wondered why God created angels before our creation. I realize that angels have ministries to Jesus, to believers, to the nations, and to unbelievers but each of those ministries is a topic in and of themselves. All of these are reasons why God created angels but I don't think that any of them is a compelling enough reason to create them before our reality (earth, man, US). Angels could have been created at anytime before man to fulfill the ministries listed.
I think the key lies in the fact that angels have a will of their own. In the post on Lucifer we took a look at how the ability to decide what to believe possibly played out in his mind. In the last post, The Fall, we saw the angels exercise their freewill and the consequences. Now let's look at the possible reasons behind all this.
God is not a dictator. God will never make somebody return the love He is giving. God says, "Love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who despitefully use you and persecute you" (Matthew 5:44). God loves all of creation equally. "God is no respecter of persons""For He makes His sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust" (Acts 10:34, Matthew 5:45).
Since God is not a dictator there had to be a choice. He allowed the angels a choice. Some had faith! Yes! Angels have faith! The angels have faith that Jesus is who He says He is. "Without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is" (Hebrews 11:6). The angels had a choice. Come to Jesus or go with Lucifer. I think this choice had to be made before the creation of our reality. Why? "To show that the LORD is upright: he is my rock, and there is no unrighteousness in him""So that a man shall say, Verily there is a reward for the righteous: verily he is a God that judgeth in the earth" (Psalm 92:15,58:11). We will be looking into the justice of God next post.
Besides the fact that God wanted the angels that remain in heaven to love Him, serve Him, and worship Him, by their own choice, He wants to show us something. What might that be? Well, I think it could be that God wants us to understand that no matter how close we get to Him if we are serving Him for any other reason than we love Him, were lost. Lucifer was the most high, top dog, most beautiful, closest to God and still fell. Sin was found in him and I think that is the biggest point, the most important, the one thing we must get out of this.....Lucifer, God's chosen angel couldn't make it on his own. The angels in heaven that followed Lucifer couldn't make it on their own. How much less can we? We will never make it to God on our own. Sin separates us. "Without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is" (Hebrews 11:6). Do you know what the best part of Hebrews 11:6 is? It's that it continues, "and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek Him". Are you diligently seeking Him?
What exactly is it we "must believe that He is"? We must believe that He is our Redeemer. We must believe that we can't do it on our own. We must believe that God IS! We must believe this, "God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life" (John 3:16). He gave Himself for us to set us free from every sin and to cleanse us so that we can be His people, His children. (Titus 2:14). Do you believe this? If notClick Here.
In the next post of this series we'll look into God's justice and I'll explain why I ended post 9, The Fall, with Genesis 1:1-2.
I think the key lies in the fact that angels have a will of their own. In the post on Lucifer we took a look at how the ability to decide what to believe possibly played out in his mind. In the last post, The Fall, we saw the angels exercise their freewill and the consequences. Now let's look at the possible reasons behind all this.
God is not a dictator. God will never make somebody return the love He is giving. God says, "Love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who despitefully use you and persecute you" (Matthew 5:44). God loves all of creation equally. "God is no respecter of persons""For He makes His sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust" (Acts 10:34, Matthew 5:45).
Since God is not a dictator there had to be a choice. He allowed the angels a choice. Some had faith! Yes! Angels have faith! The angels have faith that Jesus is who He says He is. "Without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is" (Hebrews 11:6). The angels had a choice. Come to Jesus or go with Lucifer. I think this choice had to be made before the creation of our reality. Why? "To show that the LORD is upright: he is my rock, and there is no unrighteousness in him""So that a man shall say, Verily there is a reward for the righteous: verily he is a God that judgeth in the earth" (Psalm 92:15,58:11). We will be looking into the justice of God next post.
Besides the fact that God wanted the angels that remain in heaven to love Him, serve Him, and worship Him, by their own choice, He wants to show us something. What might that be? Well, I think it could be that God wants us to understand that no matter how close we get to Him if we are serving Him for any other reason than we love Him, were lost. Lucifer was the most high, top dog, most beautiful, closest to God and still fell. Sin was found in him and I think that is the biggest point, the most important, the one thing we must get out of this.....Lucifer, God's chosen angel couldn't make it on his own. The angels in heaven that followed Lucifer couldn't make it on their own. How much less can we? We will never make it to God on our own. Sin separates us. "Without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is" (Hebrews 11:6). Do you know what the best part of Hebrews 11:6 is? It's that it continues, "and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek Him". Are you diligently seeking Him?
What exactly is it we "must believe that He is"? We must believe that He is our Redeemer. We must believe that we can't do it on our own. We must believe that God IS! We must believe this, "God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life" (John 3:16). He gave Himself for us to set us free from every sin and to cleanse us so that we can be His people, His children. (Titus 2:14). Do you believe this? If not
In the next post of this series we'll look into God's justice and I'll explain why I ended post 9, The Fall, with Genesis 1:1-2.
Friday, February 24, 2006
A Rant
My mind has wandered since seeing that bird mentioned in the previous post and I tied together several thoughts I have been mulling over. I don't know, maybe it's all just random thoughts.
We had an associational revival this past week. It was in a high school stadium and I sat all four nights up high. I'm a big time people watcher. I can completely get lost watching people. Sitting up high allowed me a view of everything and everyone.
I noticed a couple things. I'm guessing that 60% of the crowd was 60+ years old. It wouldn't surprise me at all if the figure is higher and older. The vast majority of the remaining crowd I would venture to say was the late 30's, early 40's, children of the elderly. Then there was the few scattered teens who were their kids. So what I noticed out of this is that there seemed to be a huge missing part of the human population. Were were the 18 to 35 year olds?
I looked out over the crowd each night, remembering that this was an association, and wondered if it were possible that there was no black members. I'm guessing that there was never more than 20 of our black brothers and sisters in Christ in attendance each night.
I don't know. Maybe it's cause I'm "not from around here" that I don't understand these things, but then, there was that bird in the road, and I wonder, what am I doing? I know what I want to do. I want to go to a church were drug addicts, prostitutes, beaten women, sex addict, internet whores, cranksters, crack heads, tweakers, alcoholics, and/or people I can relate to go. There is nothing "shocking" anyone could ever tell my wife and I. BEEN THERE, DONE THAT! I don't see those people coming to church though and the one church in Tallahassee I do know they are going to isn't helping them. They're giving them 12 steps to Jesus just as long as they remember "you are never healed" (from their literature) and your not suppose to "help anyone, just listen".
THERE ISN'T TWELVE STEPS TO JESUS! THERE'S TWO KNEES! The rest is grace.
Another thing that bugged me and has for sometime is the guilt trip invitation. "If your 99% sure your saved then your 100% lost". What is that? All these people saying, "Do you want to be sure?". Well, YA! Why don't you get in 1 John and teach me how I can be sure instead of making me wonder if I'm saved or not. Why do we have to have our heads down and eyes closed? Is there something embarrassing about coming to Jesus? Should it be a hidden thing? Jesus stood on a mountain if I'm correct and said, "Come to me". That was it. Nothing more. I'm pretty sure that most everyone that did come to Him walked right up to Him and requested what they wanted. I just don't see Him saying, "If your 99% sure I'm God then your 100% lost but if you just slip your hand up now I'll say a little prayer and you can be on your way saved".
I certainly don't want to portray the revival as something I didn't enjoy. I got a lot out of it. I don't know......It's a rant. Forgive me. The Lord knows I'm not doing much about any of it.
We had an associational revival this past week. It was in a high school stadium and I sat all four nights up high. I'm a big time people watcher. I can completely get lost watching people. Sitting up high allowed me a view of everything and everyone.
I noticed a couple things. I'm guessing that 60% of the crowd was 60+ years old. It wouldn't surprise me at all if the figure is higher and older. The vast majority of the remaining crowd I would venture to say was the late 30's, early 40's, children of the elderly. Then there was the few scattered teens who were their kids. So what I noticed out of this is that there seemed to be a huge missing part of the human population. Were were the 18 to 35 year olds?
I looked out over the crowd each night, remembering that this was an association, and wondered if it were possible that there was no black members. I'm guessing that there was never more than 20 of our black brothers and sisters in Christ in attendance each night.
I don't know. Maybe it's cause I'm "not from around here" that I don't understand these things, but then, there was that bird in the road, and I wonder, what am I doing? I know what I want to do. I want to go to a church were drug addicts, prostitutes, beaten women, sex addict, internet whores, cranksters, crack heads, tweakers, alcoholics, and/or people I can relate to go. There is nothing "shocking" anyone could ever tell my wife and I. BEEN THERE, DONE THAT! I don't see those people coming to church though and the one church in Tallahassee I do know they are going to isn't helping them. They're giving them 12 steps to Jesus just as long as they remember "you are never healed" (from their literature) and your not suppose to "help anyone, just listen".
THERE ISN'T TWELVE STEPS TO JESUS! THERE'S TWO KNEES! The rest is grace.
Another thing that bugged me and has for sometime is the guilt trip invitation. "If your 99% sure your saved then your 100% lost". What is that? All these people saying, "Do you want to be sure?". Well, YA! Why don't you get in 1 John and teach me how I can be sure instead of making me wonder if I'm saved or not. Why do we have to have our heads down and eyes closed? Is there something embarrassing about coming to Jesus? Should it be a hidden thing? Jesus stood on a mountain if I'm correct and said, "Come to me". That was it. Nothing more. I'm pretty sure that most everyone that did come to Him walked right up to Him and requested what they wanted. I just don't see Him saying, "If your 99% sure I'm God then your 100% lost but if you just slip your hand up now I'll say a little prayer and you can be on your way saved".
I certainly don't want to portray the revival as something I didn't enjoy. I got a lot out of it. I don't know......It's a rant. Forgive me. The Lord knows I'm not doing much about any of it.
Passed By
I saw a little bird yesterday on my way home from work. Maybe it was a baby. I don't know. All I know is it was small and it was hurt laying in the middle of the road.
I thought about stopping and picking it up but I don't know anything about birds. How could I help it? I thought about turning around and running it over to put it out of it's misery but I didn't do that either. I thought I might go back and move it off the road at least but then I was pretty far down the road and so I thought, "Well, God takes care of even the sparrow", so I offered up a prayer. It was a half hearted prayer. How could I honestly pray for a bird? And if I really did want to pray for the bird then why didn't I stop and do something?
I wonder how many people I have done that way. I saw them broken and hurt, laying in the middle of life's road, and I thought, "What can I do for them?", and passed them by.
I thought about stopping and picking it up but I don't know anything about birds. How could I help it? I thought about turning around and running it over to put it out of it's misery but I didn't do that either. I thought I might go back and move it off the road at least but then I was pretty far down the road and so I thought, "Well, God takes care of even the sparrow", so I offered up a prayer. It was a half hearted prayer. How could I honestly pray for a bird? And if I really did want to pray for the bird then why didn't I stop and do something?
I wonder how many people I have done that way. I saw them broken and hurt, laying in the middle of life's road, and I thought, "What can I do for them?", and passed them by.
Thursday, February 23, 2006
(9) The Fall
It seems whenever the topic of Lucifer and the angels comes up he is portrayed as sneaking around building an army of rebel angels against God. I don't think this is how it was at all. I think when Jesus said He was the angels Creator and Lord, some doubted.
When Lucifer spoke out against the Lord angels then let the seed of doubt in them blossom and they took sides. I imagine it wasn't unlike the Israelites and the golden calf. Jesus said, "Who is on the LORD's side? Let him come unto me" (Exodus 32:26). The rest were cast out of Heaven. They made a choice and suffered the consequences. All the angels made a choice that day. They looked at Jesus and said, "Yes, I believe He is my creator, my God, and besides Him there is no other" or they didn't believe.
"And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven" (Revelation 12:7-8). I imagine that this too was not unlike the Israelites and the golden calf. "And he said unto them, Thus saith the LORD God of Israel, Put every man his sword by his side, and go in and out from gate to gate throughout the camp, and slay every man his brother, and every man his companion, and every man his neighbor. And the children of Levi did according to the word of Moses: and there fell of the people that day about three thousand men" (Exodus 32:27-28).
Maybe it was something like this. Thus saith the Lord, put every angel on his sword by his side, and go in and out throughout Heaven, and cast out every angel that stands not with the Lord. And Michael and his angels did according to the word of God: and there fell a multitude of angels.
"In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep" (Genesis 1:1-2).
When Lucifer spoke out against the Lord angels then let the seed of doubt in them blossom and they took sides. I imagine it wasn't unlike the Israelites and the golden calf. Jesus said, "Who is on the LORD's side? Let him come unto me" (Exodus 32:26). The rest were cast out of Heaven. They made a choice and suffered the consequences. All the angels made a choice that day. They looked at Jesus and said, "Yes, I believe He is my creator, my God, and besides Him there is no other" or they didn't believe.
"And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven" (Revelation 12:7-8). I imagine that this too was not unlike the Israelites and the golden calf. "And he said unto them, Thus saith the LORD God of Israel, Put every man his sword by his side, and go in and out from gate to gate throughout the camp, and slay every man his brother, and every man his companion, and every man his neighbor. And the children of Levi did according to the word of Moses: and there fell of the people that day about three thousand men" (Exodus 32:27-28).
Maybe it was something like this. Thus saith the Lord, put every angel on his sword by his side, and go in and out throughout Heaven, and cast out every angel that stands not with the Lord. And Michael and his angels did according to the word of God: and there fell a multitude of angels.
"In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep" (Genesis 1:1-2).
A Fatal Error
In the story in the previous post I noticed I somehow omitted the most important part of the story. The line that reads, "I saw my Father, and quickly fell asleep." should have been, "When I was born again I saw my Father, and quickly fell asleep".
Without being born again the rest of the story means nothing. This has me thinking. Perhaps you are going through the story of your life and you have somehow omitted the most important part.
I have gone back and corrected the error in my short story but someday you will stand before God and you might say, "I somehow omitted the most important part of my story". Unlike my omission though, you will not be able to go back and correct that error. It will be a fatal error from which there is no recovery.
If you need JesusClick Here.
Without being born again the rest of the story means nothing. This has me thinking. Perhaps you are going through the story of your life and you have somehow omitted the most important part.
I have gone back and corrected the error in my short story but someday you will stand before God and you might say, "I somehow omitted the most important part of my story". Unlike my omission though, you will not be able to go back and correct that error. It will be a fatal error from which there is no recovery.
If you need Jesus
And Now For Something Completely Different....
A short story,
For The Love of a Son
I was born into this life unable to breath due to a collapsed lung. The Lord blessed my parents that day by giving their son the breath of life.
My soul must have hated being in the flesh from day one, but I reveled in it partaking of every secret sinful thing I could while my Heavenly Father softly called.
When I was born again I saw my Father, and quickly fell asleep.
My soul must have loved being cradled in my Fathers arms but I hated it and kicked and flailed my limbs about crying in my sleep while my Father softly coed.
When I woke up, my Father was still holding me in His arms and He fed me His Word but I fused and spit up and fell back to sleep.
My soul must have loved being fed for it cried for more but I was tired and ignored it as best I could.
I opened my eyes after the nap and my Father smiled. I was content and He fed me His Word.
I was hungry and did not know. I ate and grew until I felt I could walk on my own.
My flesh must have enjoyed the brief walk but I was a baby and stumbled in my first step and desperately flailed my arms about trying to remain upright when the Lord picked me up and said, "Now do you understand you can do nothing on your own that does not end in pain?".
I did not understand, being an infant.
My soul must have hated all the nicks and bruises I forced up on it in my insistence to explore the hard and bumpy path while my Father softly tread on the path of righteousness.
I stood and I fell.
I looked to my Father and I spoke my first words.
"Why?"
"Why do you stay with me? Why do you suffer for my distress, for my struggles? Why do you allow me to be hurt and cry?".
"WHY?"
I looked to my Father and I tripped in the flesh and hurt myself but my Father saved my soul and He showed me how to trust.
When I took my Fathers hand I got off my knees and began to walk.
I looked to my Lord and said, "I love you Father!".
He replied, "Now you know why."
By Michael Pendleton
Wednesday, February 22, 2006
A Question
I have been at a city wide revival this week. Tonight was the last night. I'm still working on The Fall post. Maybe I'll get it done tomarow.
A question was asked tonight. A simple question. An obvious question. I wish I would have thought of it. Here it is.
How can you get lost from somebody who said they would never leave you nor forsake you and that they would be with you always?
A question was asked tonight. A simple question. An obvious question. I wish I would have thought of it. Here it is.
How can you get lost from somebody who said they would never leave you nor forsake you and that they would be with you always?
Tuesday, February 21, 2006
(8) Lucifer
"How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! How art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High" (Isaiah 14:12-14).
This is the account of one angel who was cast from Heaven. Lucifers pride got the better of him. For more on pride Click Here for a great post. It is my wish to concentrate on were that pride possibly came from.
In the previous post I guessed what the first thing Jesus said to the angels was. I guessed what was said based on the results. My guess was that Jesus told the angels that He was they're creator and there was none else besides Him. The reaction from at least one angel was to question this. This one angel was Lucifer.
When do you suppose Lucifer first questioned if Jesus was God? I think it was at the very moment Jesus told him that he was a created thing. A created being made by Him. I also think a seed of doubt immediately took root in other angels.
I don't think Lucifer immediately acted upon his suspicion though. We are never told how long the angels were with God before the creation of our reality and there is no way I can know how long Lucifer served the Lord before his fall but I have a guess at the order events went in.
Lucifer upon hearing he was a created being questioned it. I believe he probably would have spoke up right then except he found out he was the most beautiful among the angels and the highest servant (read Ezekiel chapter 28). Pride then stepped in. It was at that moment he became a liar and the father of lies. The first lie he told was to himself in his heart. Lucifer served the Lord but I believe he was serving for his own vain glory until something else was said by the Lord. Something that tipped Lucifer over the edge. Something that ignited a rebellion.
I believe the Lord told the angels His intention to create our reality. It was this that tipped Lucifer over the edge. Here is why I guess this.
Lucifer was not created in God's image. As beautiful as he was he was not in the image of God. Man was going to be in the image of God.
Lucifer was the most high but man was going to be the object of God's affection. God was going to become one with man. God would have an intimacy with man that Lucifer could not know. Why do I say this? Angels do not marry (Matthew 22:30). Since angels do not marry they cannot know the intimacy of becoming one flesh (genesis 2:24). Those of man who place their faith in Jesus become His bride. Man has the potential to be one with the Lord. Lucifer never had that potential.
I think Lucifer was jealous. I think his pride kicked into high gear and he spoke out. Lucifer couldn't understand what the Lords plan was. I believe the moment Lucifer questioned his creation he immediately became unable to understand anything. Lucifer did not accept the things of God, for they were folly to him, and he was not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned. All Lucifer knew was he was the most beautiful of God's creation. He was the most high of God's creation. He was Gods chosen servant. All this was crushed at the announcement of God's plan of man and redemption.
Lucifer spoke out. Lucifer spoke out and the angels who had seeds of doubt in them at the announcement of their creation stood with him. Lucifer and the angels that stood with him exercised their freewill to choose to believe or not believe that the Lord was their maker.
In the next post, The Fall.
This is the account of one angel who was cast from Heaven. Lucifers pride got the better of him. For more on pride Click Here for a great post. It is my wish to concentrate on were that pride possibly came from.
In the previous post I guessed what the first thing Jesus said to the angels was. I guessed what was said based on the results. My guess was that Jesus told the angels that He was they're creator and there was none else besides Him. The reaction from at least one angel was to question this. This one angel was Lucifer.
When do you suppose Lucifer first questioned if Jesus was God? I think it was at the very moment Jesus told him that he was a created thing. A created being made by Him. I also think a seed of doubt immediately took root in other angels.
I don't think Lucifer immediately acted upon his suspicion though. We are never told how long the angels were with God before the creation of our reality and there is no way I can know how long Lucifer served the Lord before his fall but I have a guess at the order events went in.
Lucifer upon hearing he was a created being questioned it. I believe he probably would have spoke up right then except he found out he was the most beautiful among the angels and the highest servant (read Ezekiel chapter 28). Pride then stepped in. It was at that moment he became a liar and the father of lies. The first lie he told was to himself in his heart. Lucifer served the Lord but I believe he was serving for his own vain glory until something else was said by the Lord. Something that tipped Lucifer over the edge. Something that ignited a rebellion.
I believe the Lord told the angels His intention to create our reality. It was this that tipped Lucifer over the edge. Here is why I guess this.
Lucifer was not created in God's image. As beautiful as he was he was not in the image of God. Man was going to be in the image of God.
Lucifer was the most high but man was going to be the object of God's affection. God was going to become one with man. God would have an intimacy with man that Lucifer could not know. Why do I say this? Angels do not marry (Matthew 22:30). Since angels do not marry they cannot know the intimacy of becoming one flesh (genesis 2:24). Those of man who place their faith in Jesus become His bride. Man has the potential to be one with the Lord. Lucifer never had that potential.
I think Lucifer was jealous. I think his pride kicked into high gear and he spoke out. Lucifer couldn't understand what the Lords plan was. I believe the moment Lucifer questioned his creation he immediately became unable to understand anything. Lucifer did not accept the things of God, for they were folly to him, and he was not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned. All Lucifer knew was he was the most beautiful of God's creation. He was the most high of God's creation. He was Gods chosen servant. All this was crushed at the announcement of God's plan of man and redemption.
Lucifer spoke out. Lucifer spoke out and the angels who had seeds of doubt in them at the announcement of their creation stood with him. Lucifer and the angels that stood with him exercised their freewill to choose to believe or not believe that the Lord was their maker.
In the next post, The Fall.
Saturday, February 18, 2006
(7) Angels
What do you think the angels saw first when they were in their first second of creation? I would venture to say it was Jesus. I would like to bring us back to God speaking. Before God spoke there was only God, but now, God has spoken, "And I looked, and I heard the voice of many angels around the throne, an innumerable company of angels" (Revelations 5:11, Hebrews 12:22). Angels saw Jesus sitting on a throne.
God spoke an innumerable number of angels into existence instantly and completely. I do not believe God kept creating more angels. Every angel was created all at once and there has been no others created since. Innumerable angels came to be and saw Jesus. God stepped into a reality He created.
I have often wondered what the first thing Jesus said to an innumerable number of angels who just came to be. I'm guessing it was "Fear Not!" followed closely by "I am the Lord thy God. Thou shalt have no other gods before me". No matter what was said I imagine that Jesus did indeed inform them that they were created by Him and before Him there was nothing except Him. Why do I say this? Well, It seems that one angel questioned this. One cannot question something one does not know about. We will learn more about this when I get to Lucifer.
The fact that God created the angels and their reality before ours can be found Job 38:6-7. Some commentaries say the morning stars in verse 7 are angels, others not. I reserve my opinion to myself. What is not in doubt are the sons of God. They are angels present when God began creating. "Where were you when I laid the foundations of the earth? Tell if you have understanding! Who has set its measurements, for you know? Or who has stretched the line on it? On what are its bases sunk, or who cast its cornerstone, when the morning stars sang together and all the sons of God shouted for joy? " (Job 38:4-7).
Angels shouted for joy when God was creating the earth. It's logical to think they were with God when He started. I have often wondered why God created angels first and why bother with angels at all. Angels are spirit beings (Hebrews 1:14) and they do not die (Luke 20:36). God could not give His greatest love to angels. God wasn't going to become spirit and lay down His life for angels that do not die so why bother with them? Why not just get right to creating the earth and man?
I think the key lies in the fact that angels have a will of their own and that is what I wish to concentrate on. I realize that angels have ministries to Jesus, to believers, to the nations, and to unbelievers but each of those ministries is a topic in and of themselves. All of these are reasons why God created angels but I don't think that any of them is a compelling enough reason to create them before our reality (earth, man, US). Angels could have been created at anytime before man to fulfill the ministries listed.
We are never told how long the angels were with God before the creation of our reality. It's not all that important I don't imagine. What is important is what took place in that time and that has everything to do with the angels having a will of their own and their ability to exercise that will. It's in this I think we find compelling reasons to have angels created first.
In the next post angels use their freewill and we meet Lucifer.
God spoke an innumerable number of angels into existence instantly and completely. I do not believe God kept creating more angels. Every angel was created all at once and there has been no others created since. Innumerable angels came to be and saw Jesus. God stepped into a reality He created.
I have often wondered what the first thing Jesus said to an innumerable number of angels who just came to be. I'm guessing it was "Fear Not!" followed closely by "I am the Lord thy God. Thou shalt have no other gods before me". No matter what was said I imagine that Jesus did indeed inform them that they were created by Him and before Him there was nothing except Him. Why do I say this? Well, It seems that one angel questioned this. One cannot question something one does not know about. We will learn more about this when I get to Lucifer.
The fact that God created the angels and their reality before ours can be found Job 38:6-7. Some commentaries say the morning stars in verse 7 are angels, others not. I reserve my opinion to myself. What is not in doubt are the sons of God. They are angels present when God began creating. "Where were you when I laid the foundations of the earth? Tell if you have understanding! Who has set its measurements, for you know? Or who has stretched the line on it? On what are its bases sunk, or who cast its cornerstone, when the morning stars sang together and all the sons of God shouted for joy? " (Job 38:4-7).
Angels shouted for joy when God was creating the earth. It's logical to think they were with God when He started. I have often wondered why God created angels first and why bother with angels at all. Angels are spirit beings (Hebrews 1:14) and they do not die (Luke 20:36). God could not give His greatest love to angels. God wasn't going to become spirit and lay down His life for angels that do not die so why bother with them? Why not just get right to creating the earth and man?
I think the key lies in the fact that angels have a will of their own and that is what I wish to concentrate on. I realize that angels have ministries to Jesus, to believers, to the nations, and to unbelievers but each of those ministries is a topic in and of themselves. All of these are reasons why God created angels but I don't think that any of them is a compelling enough reason to create them before our reality (earth, man, US). Angels could have been created at anytime before man to fulfill the ministries listed.
We are never told how long the angels were with God before the creation of our reality. It's not all that important I don't imagine. What is important is what took place in that time and that has everything to do with the angels having a will of their own and their ability to exercise that will. It's in this I think we find compelling reasons to have angels created first.
In the next post angels use their freewill and we meet Lucifer.
Why I Believe in a Triune God
I believe there is a god. According to a Gallup poll an estimated 87 percent of the worlds population believe there is a god.
I believe my god cannot lie to me. To believe that god can lie means that we need not believe anything else which means believing in that god is pointless.
I believe my god has spoken to me. If god did not speak to me I would not care much about if there was a god or not.
Since my god has spoken to me and cannot lie I believe Him when He says, "I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me" (Isaiah 45:5). My God is the only God.
I believe my God when He says that He is love (1 John 4:16).
Since my God says He is love and He cannot lie I believe Him when He says what love is.
"If I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am become sounding brass, or a clanging cymbal. And if I have the gift of prophecy, and know all mysteries and all knowledge; and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing.
And if I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and if I give my body to be burned, but have not love, it profiteth me nothing. Love suffereth long, and is kind; love envieth not; love vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up, doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not its own, is not provoked, taketh not account of evil; rejoiceth not in unrighteousness, but rejoiceth with the truth; beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things" (1 Corinthians 13:1-7).
I believe my God when He says, "But now abideth faith, hope, love, these three; and the greatest of these is love." (1 Corinthians 13:13). God says the greatest thing is love and God is love so not only is God the greatest thing He defines what the greatest thing is by Himself.
Since God is the greatest love and cannot lie I believe Him when He says what the greatest love is. "Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends" (John 15:13). What does that say? HIS LIFE. Not another's life. Not a created life. HIS LIFE! God the Father who is love says the greatest love is that A MAN lay down HIS LIFE.
I believe God when He says, "I am the LORD, I change not" (Malachi 3:6). My God who cannot change and cannot lie "became flesh, and dwelt among us" (John 1:14).
Only one person in history has ever proclaimed to lay down their life for mankind and that is Jesus. God the Son.
Jesus must be God since He said, "I lay down my life for the sheep" (John 10:15). The sheep is mankind. Jesus also said he came "to give his life a ransom for many" (Matthew 20:28).
Jesus said point blank, "I and my Father are one" (John 10:30).
Since God cannot lie and cannot change I believe God when He says, "Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends" (John 15:13).
I believe God the Father demonstrated the greatest love as He Himself defined love by His very nature which is love and became flesh, and dwelt among us, laying down HIS LIFE for the ransom of many. Or we could say, for His friends.
If God did not lay down HIS life life then God is a liar and it would not matter what Jesus said since Jesus would be only man. Nothing God created could ever demonstrate the greatest love God defined by Himself being love. No created thing could lay down their life in place of God. God said HIS life. Jesus was not the first created thing. Jesus was not created. Jesus is God.
"Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever" (Hebrews 13:8). "I am the LORD, I change not" (Malachi 3:6). "I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me" (Isaiah 45:5). "I and my Father are one" (John 10:30).
Jesus makes a distinction between Himself and His Father and yet says they are one. God had to lay down HIS life or God would be a liar. Jesus said He came to lay down His life. The only way to account for this is say that the Father is God and the Father is Jesus. Two of the three Triune God. I will tell you why I believe in the third in a second.
"The eternal triune God reveals Himself to us as Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, with distinct personal attributes, but without division of nature, essence, or being" (Baptist Faith and Message). Since this such a difficult concept to wrap our limited human mind around many choose not to believe it at all. I tried to explain how I think of or deal with the Trinity in my previous post. I hope this one clears up any misunderstandings.
Jesus says, "I will pray the Father, and He shall give you another Comforter, so that He may be with you forever" (John 14:16). "He dwells with you and shall be in you" (John14:17).
Jesus who is God and cannot lie and does not change says, "I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you" (John 14:18). "I am with you always" (Matthew 28:20).
Jesus says, "If a man love me my Father will love him, and WE will come unto him, and make our abode with him" (John 14:23). It's not only Jesus who comes. It's the Father too. It would have to be this way since Jesus and the Father are one. Notice the condition though? "If a man love me". There is evidence of that love that I removed from the verse above since that is a whole different topic all together. I suggest you get in your bible and check it out, John 14:23.
God cannot lie and does not change. He Himself became man. Jesus is that man. Jesus says He will come to us, that He is always with us, and that the Father comes with Him.
Jesus says, "I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me" ( John 15:26). Jesus will send the Spirit. The Spirit comes from the Father. Jesus and the Father are one. Jesus says HE will come to us. When the Holy Spirit comes, the Son comes. When the Son comes, the Father comes. The Father is the Son who is the Spirit. The Holy Spirit is God. The third part of the Triune God.
I believe "The eternal triune God reveals Himself to us as Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, with distinct personal attributes, but without division of nature, essence, or being" (Baptist Faith and Message).
I have done my best to explain how I think or deal with the reality of a Truine God. I have done my best to explain why I believe in a Truine God. I am now going to move back to my previous line of writings. We left off with God just speaking angels into existence.
I believe my god cannot lie to me. To believe that god can lie means that we need not believe anything else which means believing in that god is pointless.
I believe my god has spoken to me. If god did not speak to me I would not care much about if there was a god or not.
Since my god has spoken to me and cannot lie I believe Him when He says, "I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me" (Isaiah 45:5). My God is the only God.
I believe my God when He says that He is love (1 John 4:16).
Since my God says He is love and He cannot lie I believe Him when He says what love is.
"If I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am become sounding brass, or a clanging cymbal. And if I have the gift of prophecy, and know all mysteries and all knowledge; and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing.
And if I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and if I give my body to be burned, but have not love, it profiteth me nothing. Love suffereth long, and is kind; love envieth not; love vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up, doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not its own, is not provoked, taketh not account of evil; rejoiceth not in unrighteousness, but rejoiceth with the truth; beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things" (1 Corinthians 13:1-7).
I believe my God when He says, "But now abideth faith, hope, love, these three; and the greatest of these is love." (1 Corinthians 13:13). God says the greatest thing is love and God is love so not only is God the greatest thing He defines what the greatest thing is by Himself.
Since God is the greatest love and cannot lie I believe Him when He says what the greatest love is. "Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends" (John 15:13). What does that say? HIS LIFE. Not another's life. Not a created life. HIS LIFE! God the Father who is love says the greatest love is that A MAN lay down HIS LIFE.
I believe God when He says, "I am the LORD, I change not" (Malachi 3:6). My God who cannot change and cannot lie "became flesh, and dwelt among us" (John 1:14).
Only one person in history has ever proclaimed to lay down their life for mankind and that is Jesus. God the Son.
Jesus must be God since He said, "I lay down my life for the sheep" (John 10:15). The sheep is mankind. Jesus also said he came "to give his life a ransom for many" (Matthew 20:28).
Jesus said point blank, "I and my Father are one" (John 10:30).
Since God cannot lie and cannot change I believe God when He says, "Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends" (John 15:13).
I believe God the Father demonstrated the greatest love as He Himself defined love by His very nature which is love and became flesh, and dwelt among us, laying down HIS LIFE for the ransom of many. Or we could say, for His friends.
If God did not lay down HIS life life then God is a liar and it would not matter what Jesus said since Jesus would be only man. Nothing God created could ever demonstrate the greatest love God defined by Himself being love. No created thing could lay down their life in place of God. God said HIS life. Jesus was not the first created thing. Jesus was not created. Jesus is God.
"Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever" (Hebrews 13:8). "I am the LORD, I change not" (Malachi 3:6). "I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me" (Isaiah 45:5). "I and my Father are one" (John 10:30).
Jesus makes a distinction between Himself and His Father and yet says they are one. God had to lay down HIS life or God would be a liar. Jesus said He came to lay down His life. The only way to account for this is say that the Father is God and the Father is Jesus. Two of the three Triune God. I will tell you why I believe in the third in a second.
"The eternal triune God reveals Himself to us as Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, with distinct personal attributes, but without division of nature, essence, or being" (Baptist Faith and Message). Since this such a difficult concept to wrap our limited human mind around many choose not to believe it at all. I tried to explain how I think of or deal with the Trinity in my previous post. I hope this one clears up any misunderstandings.
Jesus says, "I will pray the Father, and He shall give you another Comforter, so that He may be with you forever" (John 14:16). "He dwells with you and shall be in you" (John14:17).
Jesus who is God and cannot lie and does not change says, "I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you" (John 14:18). "I am with you always" (Matthew 28:20).
Jesus says, "If a man love me my Father will love him, and WE will come unto him, and make our abode with him" (John 14:23). It's not only Jesus who comes. It's the Father too. It would have to be this way since Jesus and the Father are one. Notice the condition though? "If a man love me". There is evidence of that love that I removed from the verse above since that is a whole different topic all together. I suggest you get in your bible and check it out, John 14:23.
God cannot lie and does not change. He Himself became man. Jesus is that man. Jesus says He will come to us, that He is always with us, and that the Father comes with Him.
Jesus says, "I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me" ( John 15:26). Jesus will send the Spirit. The Spirit comes from the Father. Jesus and the Father are one. Jesus says HE will come to us. When the Holy Spirit comes, the Son comes. When the Son comes, the Father comes. The Father is the Son who is the Spirit. The Holy Spirit is God. The third part of the Triune God.
I believe "The eternal triune God reveals Himself to us as Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, with distinct personal attributes, but without division of nature, essence, or being" (Baptist Faith and Message).
I have done my best to explain how I think or deal with the reality of a Truine God. I have done my best to explain why I believe in a Truine God. I am now going to move back to my previous line of writings. We left off with God just speaking angels into existence.
Thursday, February 16, 2006
The Trinity
I would like to discuss the doctrine of the Trinity. It is my greatest desire that anyone reading this understands that my grasping at straws to explain something volumes of literature has been written about is just that......me grasping at straws. I have something that helps me think about the Trinity and gives me understanding. It is imperative to completely drop the idea of time as we know it and that is why I have repeated that so often. This is why the crystal ball analogy of God seeing into the future is incorrect, God is already in the future. We sing it, "I know Who holds tomorrow".
There seems to be two views of the Trinity that I could possibly fall into and it is not my intention in any way to do that. One is that of God being like a father, mother, and child which suggest three Gods and not one. The other is that of a dad who is also a business man and a couch which suggest God with three modes of expression.
We call God the author of life. I have thought long and hard about why we call Him that. I began thinking about John 1:1, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God". In the beginning the Word already existed.
"The heavens and the heaven of heavens cannot contain" God the Father (1 Kings 8:27). Yes, I took some liberty with that verse. Nothing God created can contain Him, unless, He chooses to step in.
God the Father cannot be contained by the reality He created and so He must remain outside it. God is omnipresent in all places at all times because everything is contained in Him. As I have already written, God is love and God says that the greatest love is to lay down His life for a friend. At some point in eternity past before God created anything there was only Him. God, by Himself, full of love, being love Himself and defining love by Himself, thinking about you and I. God was thinking about laying down His life for all of us. God created a reality He could step into. "All things came into being through Him, and without Him not even one thing came into being that has come into being." (John 1:3). Who is the Him? It's Jesus, God the Son. "He was in the beginning with God" (John 1:2).
For sometime I kept turning over the whole thing of eternity and God stepping into creation and then I hit on the whole author of life thing and that Jesus is the Word......and some of you probably can guess where I'm going to go and the rest are going to find out right now.
I have read and heard sermons say that God is like a producer who made a movie. He knows the entire movie while the audience only knows the point they are at in the movie. It don't work for me. I much prefer a book.
We say that God is the author of life. I like that. God the Father is outside the book He authors. He is not contained by it. He knows every detail of it. He is the beginning and the end. Although I believe that God never had to author anything I believe He was compelled by His nature to create. God is love and God says that the greatest love is to lay down His life for a friend.
Jesus is the Word. God the Son. God in His creation. God never changes so God the Son was always meant to step in. He had to author a place He could step into. This is why the bible says He "made Himself of no reputation, and took upon Himself the form of a servant" (Philippians 2:7). Jesus was not omnipresent. Jesus stepped into time and was confined by it. Jesus experienced things sequentially. "The Word became flesh" (John 1:14) but "God is a spirit" (John 4:24). Hmmmm......God the Father is spirit but I'm fairly certain that Jesus, God the Son, has always been flesh and always been love and always was going to lay down His life for His friends. We were created in His image.
God could have taken a million years to plan one second of your life. This is where God the Holy Spirit comes in. God is with you because He created you. You have been authored. You are a character in the book. God wrote whole chapters just about you. It's not that there is a Holy Spirit for each person, It's that God, who is not contained by time, has all the time in eternity to be with just you!
As I said, I'm grasping at straws. Everything makes perfect sense in my mind but between the concept and the keyboard is a lot of sinful me. In the most simplistic terms, God the Father authors a book. He writes Himself into the book, God the Son. He intimately cares for each character in His book, God the Holy Spirit. I can see each as as Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, with distinct personal attributes, but without division of nature, essence, or being. If by a gift of God you too can see how this works then all praise goes to God because I know I feel it's all inept compared to what is in my mind.
I can't wait to get back to angels! God stepping into a reality He created before our reality.
There seems to be two views of the Trinity that I could possibly fall into and it is not my intention in any way to do that. One is that of God being like a father, mother, and child which suggest three Gods and not one. The other is that of a dad who is also a business man and a couch which suggest God with three modes of expression.
We call God the author of life. I have thought long and hard about why we call Him that. I began thinking about John 1:1, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God". In the beginning the Word already existed.
"The heavens and the heaven of heavens cannot contain" God the Father (1 Kings 8:27). Yes, I took some liberty with that verse. Nothing God created can contain Him, unless, He chooses to step in.
God the Father cannot be contained by the reality He created and so He must remain outside it. God is omnipresent in all places at all times because everything is contained in Him. As I have already written, God is love and God says that the greatest love is to lay down His life for a friend. At some point in eternity past before God created anything there was only Him. God, by Himself, full of love, being love Himself and defining love by Himself, thinking about you and I. God was thinking about laying down His life for all of us. God created a reality He could step into. "All things came into being through Him, and without Him not even one thing came into being that has come into being." (John 1:3). Who is the Him? It's Jesus, God the Son. "He was in the beginning with God" (John 1:2).
For sometime I kept turning over the whole thing of eternity and God stepping into creation and then I hit on the whole author of life thing and that Jesus is the Word......and some of you probably can guess where I'm going to go and the rest are going to find out right now.
I have read and heard sermons say that God is like a producer who made a movie. He knows the entire movie while the audience only knows the point they are at in the movie. It don't work for me. I much prefer a book.
We say that God is the author of life. I like that. God the Father is outside the book He authors. He is not contained by it. He knows every detail of it. He is the beginning and the end. Although I believe that God never had to author anything I believe He was compelled by His nature to create. God is love and God says that the greatest love is to lay down His life for a friend.
Jesus is the Word. God the Son. God in His creation. God never changes so God the Son was always meant to step in. He had to author a place He could step into. This is why the bible says He "made Himself of no reputation, and took upon Himself the form of a servant" (Philippians 2:7). Jesus was not omnipresent. Jesus stepped into time and was confined by it. Jesus experienced things sequentially. "The Word became flesh" (John 1:14) but "God is a spirit" (John 4:24). Hmmmm......God the Father is spirit but I'm fairly certain that Jesus, God the Son, has always been flesh and always been love and always was going to lay down His life for His friends. We were created in His image.
God could have taken a million years to plan one second of your life. This is where God the Holy Spirit comes in. God is with you because He created you. You have been authored. You are a character in the book. God wrote whole chapters just about you. It's not that there is a Holy Spirit for each person, It's that God, who is not contained by time, has all the time in eternity to be with just you!
As I said, I'm grasping at straws. Everything makes perfect sense in my mind but between the concept and the keyboard is a lot of sinful me. In the most simplistic terms, God the Father authors a book. He writes Himself into the book, God the Son. He intimately cares for each character in His book, God the Holy Spirit. I can see each as as Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, with distinct personal attributes, but without division of nature, essence, or being. If by a gift of God you too can see how this works then all praise goes to God because I know I feel it's all inept compared to what is in my mind.
I can't wait to get back to angels! God stepping into a reality He created before our reality.
Tuesday, February 14, 2006
Miscellaneous Ramblings
Good Day!
My visit with my dad went very well! I think it's the first time I have ever fully understood how my life can be a testimony. When my dad last saw my wife and I we were living a completely different life than we live now. We were both all drugged up and drunk every second of every day and living in a rat trap studio apartment under a meth lab that eventually caught on fire and tried to burn the building down. How far Jesus has brought us! My dad just couldn't get over how everything is different now. Maybe I'll get around to putting a full testimony in my profile.
God willing when I get home from work today I'll get to work on getting back on topic. It would appear that I need to further elaborate on how God can know everything completely from before creation and still be fully involved with His creation as an unfolding plan of redemption. I'm hoping to move onto angels, Luciffer, and the fall in the next few post.
Sure is cold this moring! Brrrrrrrrrrrr!
My visit with my dad went very well! I think it's the first time I have ever fully understood how my life can be a testimony. When my dad last saw my wife and I we were living a completely different life than we live now. We were both all drugged up and drunk every second of every day and living in a rat trap studio apartment under a meth lab that eventually caught on fire and tried to burn the building down. How far Jesus has brought us! My dad just couldn't get over how everything is different now. Maybe I'll get around to putting a full testimony in my profile.
God willing when I get home from work today I'll get to work on getting back on topic. It would appear that I need to further elaborate on how God can know everything completely from before creation and still be fully involved with His creation as an unfolding plan of redemption. I'm hoping to move onto angels, Luciffer, and the fall in the next few post.
Sure is cold this moring! Brrrrrrrrrrrr!
Wednesday, February 08, 2006
Time Off
Hello Everybody!
My dad (who I have not seen in 4 years) has come down for the week so I will not be doing any post till Saturday at the soonest.
I would like to take the time to thank all those who come here and especially those who comment. I very much encourage people to comment. Although it would be my human desire that everyone agrees with me that does not cause growth. By disagreeing with me it sends me back to look into matters further. We sharpen each other through such interactions.
Once again,
THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR VISITING!
My dad (who I have not seen in 4 years) has come down for the week so I will not be doing any post till Saturday at the soonest.
I would like to take the time to thank all those who come here and especially those who comment. I very much encourage people to comment. Although it would be my human desire that everyone agrees with me that does not cause growth. By disagreeing with me it sends me back to look into matters further. We sharpen each other through such interactions.
Once again,
THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR VISITING!
Friday, February 03, 2006
(6) God Speaks
For those of you who have missed the previous post, here is where we are. Our reality has not yet been created. God exist by Himself and nothing else exist except Him. God is love (1 John 4:16). God says, "Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends" (John 15:13). Since God does not change and cannot lie then from all eternity past God's intention was to fulfill the ultimate expression of love as defined by Himself. All these thoughts are expanded on in previous post.
In the last post we established that God would not and will not force anyone to do His will and/or respond to Him which led to the fact that God would have to allow anything and anyone He created to have freedom to choose. Choose what? Well, "Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends", choose to be God's friends. Just who are God's friends? God says, "You are My friends if you do whatever I command you" (John 15:14). What does God command? LOVE! Love Him. Love each other. Love everyone!
Now I need to move on to another point and then we will wrap this post up all nice and neat. Did you know that God knows all the what if's in life? What do I mean? Let's look at some verses.
"Woe to you, Chorazin! Woe to you, Bethsaida! For if the powerful acts which were done in you had been done in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes!" (Matthew 11:21).
What does that say? If something happened. Then what? Then things would have been different.
"And you, Capernaum, who are exalted to the heaven, shall be brought down to hell. For if the mighty works which have been done in you had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until this day" (Matthew 11:23).
If what? If something had been done, then what? Then things would have been different.
Why do I believe these verses show that God knows what would have happened if things were different? It has everything to do with God not being confined by time. Every thought process God could possibly have will become instant and perfect when placed in eternity. God knows every action and reaction. God knows how each and everything affects each and every other thing. God knows this because He has already saw all possible combinations and sequences of actions and subsequent reactions. I believe God really did know exactly what would happen if things were different in the above verses. I believe God really meant that Tyre and Sidon would have repented and Sodom would have remained. I also know exactly what could be deduced from this. Why did God allow the worst to happen if He knew the best? We are now back to freewill.
In the last post I took some liberty with 1 Corinthians 13. Since God defines love by who He is it seems clear to me that God has our best interest in mind. "Jehovah is good to all; and His tender mercies are over all His works" (Psalm 145:9). God is love and He created everything including you and I out of that love. God says, "I know the purposes which I am purposing for you, says Jehovah; purposes of peace and not of evil, to give you a future and a hope" (Jeremiah 29:11). God knows what's best for us. It's up to us to choose to step into that plan.
So how does God allow us to decide? How does He give us freewill when everything was and is created according to His perfect plan from start to finish? Once again, it has everything to do with God not being in sequential time.
In the game of chess the chess master attempts to think of every move his opponent could possibly make and then think of every counter move he can make. A master can think several moves in advance and develop a strategy that will move him towards the goal of putting his opponents king in checkmate, but, even the chess master can only react to what his opponent does. If the opponent moves in a way unexpected then the chess master must start the entire process over of thinking through all moves and the resulting moves.
God would not be fun to play chess with. Unlike the chess master, God would know every move we could make. Every move we will make. Every move we thought about making. Unlike the chess master God created the game, the rules, the pieces, YOU, the mind you use to play against Him, EVERYTHING! God would have saw the entire game and ever possible out come of the game before the game, you, or anything was created to play it.
Our reality is like that. Since God is not confined by time and does not experience time in a sequential order all of the thought process would be less than nothing when placed in the eternal past God had to plan in before creating anything. Don't get me wrong here. I don't believe God spent zillions of years thinking and rethinking the creation He was about to make. Thinking and rethinking each move of the creation. If He did though it would still have been nothing since the thought process would have a beginning and an end. Anything with a beginning an end is nothing in eternity.
The point I want to make out of all this is God looked into the future of the creation He was about to make and based His creation upon our decisions. God, who is love and wants to be loved, maximizes His creative effort to influence people to decide to be His friends. God stacks all of creation up in a way that points to loving Him but all of creation was built based upon decisions God already saw us make. This is why God says, "all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose" (Romans 8:28). God's purpose was for His creation to love Him and for those who love Him to help others see just how much God love's them. Does this remove freewill? Absolutely not! Just because God saw the decisions we make before we make them does not mean that we did not make those decisions fully on our own using our own ability to make decisions. God shaped creation around decisions He allowed all of creation to make freely.
Out of perfect love and perfect knowledge with a perfect plan God spoke. "And I looked, and I heard the voice of many angels around the throne, and the living creatures and the elders. And the number of them was myriads and myriads, and thousands of thousands, saying with a great voice, Worthy is the Lamb who was slain, to receive power and riches and wisdom and strength and honor and glory and blessing" (Revelations 5:11).
See you next post!
I just learned how to use the spell checker. My popup blocker was killing it. Please forgive any errors in previous post. Off to work with me!
In the last post we established that God would not and will not force anyone to do His will and/or respond to Him which led to the fact that God would have to allow anything and anyone He created to have freedom to choose. Choose what? Well, "Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends", choose to be God's friends. Just who are God's friends? God says, "You are My friends if you do whatever I command you" (John 15:14). What does God command? LOVE! Love Him. Love each other. Love everyone!
Now I need to move on to another point and then we will wrap this post up all nice and neat. Did you know that God knows all the what if's in life? What do I mean? Let's look at some verses.
"Woe to you, Chorazin! Woe to you, Bethsaida! For if the powerful acts which were done in you had been done in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes!" (Matthew 11:21).
What does that say? If something happened. Then what? Then things would have been different.
"And you, Capernaum, who are exalted to the heaven, shall be brought down to hell. For if the mighty works which have been done in you had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until this day" (Matthew 11:23).
If what? If something had been done, then what? Then things would have been different.
Why do I believe these verses show that God knows what would have happened if things were different? It has everything to do with God not being confined by time. Every thought process God could possibly have will become instant and perfect when placed in eternity. God knows every action and reaction. God knows how each and everything affects each and every other thing. God knows this because He has already saw all possible combinations and sequences of actions and subsequent reactions. I believe God really did know exactly what would happen if things were different in the above verses. I believe God really meant that Tyre and Sidon would have repented and Sodom would have remained. I also know exactly what could be deduced from this. Why did God allow the worst to happen if He knew the best? We are now back to freewill.
In the last post I took some liberty with 1 Corinthians 13. Since God defines love by who He is it seems clear to me that God has our best interest in mind. "Jehovah is good to all; and His tender mercies are over all His works" (Psalm 145:9). God is love and He created everything including you and I out of that love. God says, "I know the purposes which I am purposing for you, says Jehovah; purposes of peace and not of evil, to give you a future and a hope" (Jeremiah 29:11). God knows what's best for us. It's up to us to choose to step into that plan.
So how does God allow us to decide? How does He give us freewill when everything was and is created according to His perfect plan from start to finish? Once again, it has everything to do with God not being in sequential time.
In the game of chess the chess master attempts to think of every move his opponent could possibly make and then think of every counter move he can make. A master can think several moves in advance and develop a strategy that will move him towards the goal of putting his opponents king in checkmate, but, even the chess master can only react to what his opponent does. If the opponent moves in a way unexpected then the chess master must start the entire process over of thinking through all moves and the resulting moves.
God would not be fun to play chess with. Unlike the chess master, God would know every move we could make. Every move we will make. Every move we thought about making. Unlike the chess master God created the game, the rules, the pieces, YOU, the mind you use to play against Him, EVERYTHING! God would have saw the entire game and ever possible out come of the game before the game, you, or anything was created to play it.
Our reality is like that. Since God is not confined by time and does not experience time in a sequential order all of the thought process would be less than nothing when placed in the eternal past God had to plan in before creating anything. Don't get me wrong here. I don't believe God spent zillions of years thinking and rethinking the creation He was about to make. Thinking and rethinking each move of the creation. If He did though it would still have been nothing since the thought process would have a beginning and an end. Anything with a beginning an end is nothing in eternity.
The point I want to make out of all this is God looked into the future of the creation He was about to make and based His creation upon our decisions. God, who is love and wants to be loved, maximizes His creative effort to influence people to decide to be His friends. God stacks all of creation up in a way that points to loving Him but all of creation was built based upon decisions God already saw us make. This is why God says, "all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose" (Romans 8:28). God's purpose was for His creation to love Him and for those who love Him to help others see just how much God love's them. Does this remove freewill? Absolutely not! Just because God saw the decisions we make before we make them does not mean that we did not make those decisions fully on our own using our own ability to make decisions. God shaped creation around decisions He allowed all of creation to make freely.
Out of perfect love and perfect knowledge with a perfect plan God spoke. "And I looked, and I heard the voice of many angels around the throne, and the living creatures and the elders. And the number of them was myriads and myriads, and thousands of thousands, saying with a great voice, Worthy is the Lamb who was slain, to receive power and riches and wisdom and strength and honor and glory and blessing" (Revelations 5:11).
See you next post!
I just learned how to use the spell checker. My popup blocker was killing it. Please forgive any errors in previous post. Off to work with me!
(5) Eternity Past part 3
God is love and God says that the greatest love is to lay down His life for a friend. At some point in eternity past before God created anything there was only Him. God, by Himself, full of love, being love Himself and defining love by Himself, thinking about you and I. God was thinking about laying down His life for all of us.
Since God defines love by Himself then the liberty I took with the following verses is absolutely true about God.
God is patient, God is kind. He does not envy, He does not boast, He is not proud. God is not rude, He is not self-seeking, He is not easily angered, He keeps no record of wrongs. God does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. God always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres. God never fails (1 Corinthians 13:3-8).
Out of this list of attributes we can safely say that God does not demand His own way. God will not force anyone to do anything. God is not a dictator. Since God does not demand His own way God realized that there would have to be freewill in the reality He was about to create. There would have to be a choice. Think about it. The mighty eternal God who is sufficient in Himself, needing nothing and no one, looks into the future He was about to create and saw that most of it would choose to deny Him and yet He still spoke, He still entered in, He still came to give up His life for YOU!
In my next post we'll begin looking at freewill and how God let's us have it while still knowing and controlling every detail of everything. We might see some angels too.
Since God defines love by Himself then the liberty I took with the following verses is absolutely true about God.
God is patient, God is kind. He does not envy, He does not boast, He is not proud. God is not rude, He is not self-seeking, He is not easily angered, He keeps no record of wrongs. God does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. God always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres. God never fails (1 Corinthians 13:3-8).
Out of this list of attributes we can safely say that God does not demand His own way. God will not force anyone to do anything. God is not a dictator. Since God does not demand His own way God realized that there would have to be freewill in the reality He was about to create. There would have to be a choice. Think about it. The mighty eternal God who is sufficient in Himself, needing nothing and no one, looks into the future He was about to create and saw that most of it would choose to deny Him and yet He still spoke, He still entered in, He still came to give up His life for YOU!
In my next post we'll begin looking at freewill and how God let's us have it while still knowing and controlling every detail of everything. We might see some angels too.
Wednesday, February 01, 2006
Side Note: God Thinking
In the past couple post I have referred to God as thinking. I would like to take a moment to look at God's thoughts and what I am saying when I say God is "thinking".
As we have already seen, any amount of time in the context of eternity becomes nothing. All of God's "thoughts" therefor would be instant and complete. If God had to think one thought after another and build an idea it would not matter how long the thought process took, once the thought was complete it would become instant. As I said before, if God took one million years to plan each second of your life it would still be less than nothing in the context of eternity.
I simply want to make clear I don't believe God had to stumble around with an idea and experiment, change His mind, and do the whole "brain storming" thing. Everything God does is finished when it begins. There are no mistakes. There is no changing of the mind. Everything that is going on in the reality He has created us in has already been completed. We only get to experience it moment by moment.
I can hear people crying predestination now. Were going to cover that eventually. For now though, let's put God back in eternity past thinking about laying down His life for us.
As we have already seen, any amount of time in the context of eternity becomes nothing. All of God's "thoughts" therefor would be instant and complete. If God had to think one thought after another and build an idea it would not matter how long the thought process took, once the thought was complete it would become instant. As I said before, if God took one million years to plan each second of your life it would still be less than nothing in the context of eternity.
I simply want to make clear I don't believe God had to stumble around with an idea and experiment, change His mind, and do the whole "brain storming" thing. Everything God does is finished when it begins. There are no mistakes. There is no changing of the mind. Everything that is going on in the reality He has created us in has already been completed. We only get to experience it moment by moment.
I can hear people crying predestination now. Were going to cover that eventually. For now though, let's put God back in eternity past thinking about laying down His life for us.
(4) Eternity Past part 2
In the last post we established that at some point God exsisted by Himself before He created anything. God was all by Himself thinking about us somewhere in eternity past. Why do you suppose God was thinking about us? Before I answer this question let's look at who God is.
"God is love" (1 John 4:16). God says, "Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends" (John 15:13). God says, "I am the LORD, I change not" (Malachi 3:6). Since we worship a "God that cannot lie" (Titus 1:2) we can safely say that God who is love has for all eternity past wanted to express His love in the greatest form He defined by Himself which is, "Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends".
"The eternal triune God reveals Himself to us as Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, with distinct personal attributes, but without division of nature, essence, or being" (Baptist Faith and Message). Was God going to lay down His life for the Son? The Holy Spirit? Was either the Son or Holy Spirit going to lay down their lives for either of the other?
God is love and God says that the greatest love is to lay down His life. God is love and what is love if it is not expressed? From all eternity God planned how He would express Himself in His creation. But how would He do it? How would it all play out? We'll begin to look at that next time. Oh! To answer the first question, God was thinking about laying down His life for us!
"God is love" (1 John 4:16). God says, "Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends" (John 15:13). God says, "I am the LORD, I change not" (Malachi 3:6). Since we worship a "God that cannot lie" (Titus 1:2) we can safely say that God who is love has for all eternity past wanted to express His love in the greatest form He defined by Himself which is, "Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends".
"The eternal triune God reveals Himself to us as Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, with distinct personal attributes, but without division of nature, essence, or being" (Baptist Faith and Message). Was God going to lay down His life for the Son? The Holy Spirit? Was either the Son or Holy Spirit going to lay down their lives for either of the other?
God is love and God says that the greatest love is to lay down His life. God is love and what is love if it is not expressed? From all eternity God planned how He would express Himself in His creation. But how would He do it? How would it all play out? We'll begin to look at that next time. Oh! To answer the first question, God was thinking about laying down His life for us!
(3) Eternity Past
"I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me" (Isaiah 45:5).
In the previous two post we established that any amount of time no matter how expansive is nothing in eternity. We looked at the fact that God created time and the reality we exsist in but is outside of it. All time and the reality we experience moment by moment is completely contained from start to finish in God. This being true and the above verse being true then there was a time before our time that God exsisted by Himself.
At some point in eternity past God was and He was all that was. God says there is no other God beside Him and so if God had not created anything yet then at some point in eternity past there was only God. If this were not true then we are all worshiping the wrong god. I personally want to worship the biggest, best, first, true, god. Not second place.
What do you think God did in eternity past? I think I know. I think He was thinking. What do you suppose He was thinking about? YOU! Yes, God was thinking about you! We do not know how long God thought about His creation before speaking everything into exsistance. What we do know is He had all eternity. If God spent a million years thinking about each second of your life it would still be absolutly nothing in the scope of eternity.
God says, "I know the plans that I have for you, declares the LORD. They are plans for peace and not disaster, plans to give you a future filled with hope" (Jeremiah 29:11). God had all of eternity to figure out exactly what would be the very best for you and I, for all of us.
Were going to look more at God in eternity past in the next post and start to look into God's purpose in creating our reality and the time we exsist in.
In the previous two post we established that any amount of time no matter how expansive is nothing in eternity. We looked at the fact that God created time and the reality we exsist in but is outside of it. All time and the reality we experience moment by moment is completely contained from start to finish in God. This being true and the above verse being true then there was a time before our time that God exsisted by Himself.
At some point in eternity past God was and He was all that was. God says there is no other God beside Him and so if God had not created anything yet then at some point in eternity past there was only God. If this were not true then we are all worshiping the wrong god. I personally want to worship the biggest, best, first, true, god. Not second place.
What do you think God did in eternity past? I think I know. I think He was thinking. What do you suppose He was thinking about? YOU! Yes, God was thinking about you! We do not know how long God thought about His creation before speaking everything into exsistance. What we do know is He had all eternity. If God spent a million years thinking about each second of your life it would still be absolutly nothing in the scope of eternity.
God says, "I know the plans that I have for you, declares the LORD. They are plans for peace and not disaster, plans to give you a future filled with hope" (Jeremiah 29:11). God had all of eternity to figure out exactly what would be the very best for you and I, for all of us.
Were going to look more at God in eternity past in the next post and start to look into God's purpose in creating our reality and the time we exsist in.
Subscribe to:
Posts (Atom)